Z. Pınar Erol

News Center- On the occasion of November 1st, World Kobani Day, NuJINHA spoke to Nazan Üstündağ, a sociologist and an Academic for Peace who has been compelled to live away from Turkey for the past eight years. In an interview with us, Nazan Üstündağ shared her perspective on what Kobani means as a resistance, aspiration for self-determination, and the women’s revolution.

In 2016, you traveled to the U.S. for an academic program and have been unable to return to Türkiye since then. We found you in Sri Lanka. Are you there for a specific research project?

Yes, I’m here for eight months. In essence, I’m continuing my usual research. I wanted to use my time away from Türkiye to better understand the countries of the Global South—especially Africa and Asia. Coming here was made possible through a research grant. Developing relationships with women’s movements and other dissident groups, observing their histories and resistances, has been incredibly eye-opening and enriching. I see these trips less as focused studies and more as experiences for intellectual and practical growth from multiple perspectives.

Kobani is both a highly debated topic in Türkiye and yet largely unknown to many. You’ve described, written about, commented on, and brought attention to Kobani; you have been there several times. For those unfamiliar with it, how would you describe Kobani in brief?

Kobani is a homeland. And I would want to present it to the world as a homeland. By “homeland,” I mean a place that embraced the world’s dissidents, fought for global resistance, refused to accept imposed conditions, and created a world from resistance. It’s a small city that, at the time, was likely dismissed by the world, yet, by saying “no,” it refused to be erased from history or marginalized. Instead, it sparked a universal moment of resistance. It’s the place where the occupying and colonial force of ISIS was halted, and, for a brief moment, the desire for self-determination has shined in the Middle East.

The siege of ISIS on Kobani was defeated at the beginning of 2015. Yet, since the end of the peace process in Türkiye, attacks on Rojava and Kobani have continued. Inside Türkiye, the Kobani case has become a political trial where Kurdish politicians have been detained for years and ultimately severely punished. Is Kobani a key to understanding—and perhaps finding a solution to—the Kurdish issue?

Every city in Kurdish lands is an allegory for Kurdish history. Kobani, like Amed (Diyarbakır), Cizre, Van, and Sulaymaniyah, holds this significance. Occupation and colonialism turn each city into a place where the story of its people is carved out, crystallizing the shared history of that people in physical space. In this sense, each city is a key. Resolving the issues of any one city requires significant steps in addressing the Kurdish issue as a whole. If it were recognized that Kobani is a Kurdish city, that the fate of this city concerns all Kurds, that watching it burn from across the border causes pain to Kurds, and that its resistance fills them with pride—then Kurdish existence and the Kurdish people as a distinct nation would be acknowledged in Türkiye. It would be understood that equal footing with the Kurds means respecting their concerns and aspirations. But, of course, within a structure where Kurds are established as the ontological “Other,” these realizations may happen momentarily for some. Yet, for this to become state policy would require a wholly new foundational initiative.

How did women’s roles and contributions manifest in the self-governance established in Kobani and Rojava more broadly, and what were their impacts?

If nothing else happened in Rojava, a women’s revolution happened. This is an undeniable reality, a unique phenomenon not seen anywhere else in the world (I can’t speak about Chiapas, as I haven’t seen it). I emphasize its uniqueness. It is a place we must protect like the apple of our eye, learn from, and stand by as women. It’s a place where all the accumulation of women’s movements has been tested, where the women’s revolution became popularized. A place where, in every institution, street, and home, the labor of women became visible for the first time, at a high level, through media and politics.

In a 2015 essay, you elaborated on the concept of ‘new wars.’ According to you, new wars encompass two types of conflicts. The first being endless wars carried out by states with significant public consent—Israel and Türkiye given as examples. The second type genocidal wars waged by paramilitary groups in the wake of state collapse, and in these scenarios, you discuss the role of women in self-defense.

How do you see the impact of imperialism in its current phase on the generalized state of wars in the world? Are imperialist countries and the states they support, or the states they target collapsing and dissolving? How does the “criminalization of states and the statification of gangs” play out? And in the face of all this, how can people, women, and communities reclaim peace and life?

To put it briefly, we are truly living within a war regime. From China to Russia, from India to the United States, from Israel to Saudi Arabia, we are in a period where global and regional imperial powers are intensifying their attacks and creating alliances with various local armed forces. These wars lack ideological meaning. For this reason, alliances are constantly shifting; the objectives are control over land, resources, and trade routes. In Africa and Latin America, particularly, we see gangs becoming entangled in these wars. In Haiti, gangs hold power; El Salvador uses gangs as an excuse to wage war on its own people. In places like Sudan and the Congo, supposed civil wars—like in Sudan, where the UAE fuels the conflict in pursuit of gold—are resulting in genocides. And as we see in Palestine, genocides receive the open support of imperialist powers.

On the other hand, despite all contrary conditions, people continue to take to the streets and pursue revolution in places like Bangladesh, Kenya, and Uganda.

I believe it is long overdue for women worldwide to establish an anti-militarist Women’s International, with strong local roots. Similarly, the International of stateless peoples, liberation organizations, etc., is needed. Fascism is an international phenomenon. So must resistance be—one that creates truth and meaning for people.

Due to climate change, the world is moving toward its end. There has never been a more direct and concrete link between defending the people, the youth, and women and defending the planet. I now think that even struggling for one cause on its own, without joining with others, is impossible—that we must confront the complex networks of fascism with clear networks and solidarities. There’s much more to say on these topics, but I’ll end here for now.